Gather five of the most relevant comedians working today and ask what scares them most, and the answers vary. Complacency comes up. So does cancellation. “And sometimes people don’t hear comedy for comedy,” says Marc Maron. “They’re like, ‘Well, I don’t really believe that.’ And I’m like, ‘Good, because it’s a fucking joke, stupid.’ ” The comment scored big laughs, as did so much else during THR‘s Stand-Up Comedy Emmy Roundtable, which took place in early May at The Georgian Hotel in Santa Monica. Maron was joined by Nikki Glaser, Wanda Sykes, Leanne Morgan and Julio Torres, all of whom have released specials in the past year, for a wide-ranging, often raunchy conversation about comedy, politics, bombing and, yes, Glaser’s desire to be, as she puts it, “fuckable,” but “not actually fucked.”
What was the last experience you had where you thought, in that moment, “Well, at least this will make good comedy”?
NIKKI GLASER Marc? I feel like you mine your pain very frequently.
MARC MARON Well, I’ve been talking to myself more than usual. In the moment, I don’t think it’s very funny, but I’m starting to think maybe this is an avenue that I can explore. I don’t know if this sounds sad or not, but I have three cats and I’m not talking to them. Even when they’re like, “What’s going on?” I’m like, “No, I’m going to keep this to myself. It’s between me and me.”
JULIO TORRES “This isn’t for you!”
GLASER What was the moment you realized, “I’m not talking to the cats. I’m talking to myself”? Did they go, like, “Reeaarr,” and you’re like, “Not you”?
MARON When you live alone with animals, you do have the moment of realization that you build personalities for them and say things like, “How you feeling, Charlie? Are you comfortable or are you upset?” There’s no answer. They’re not feeling any of those things. So, what I’m exploring is this new level of loneliness that I’m experiencing. I thought maybe I’d share that with everybody. I need friends …
WANDA SYKES We’re here, Marc. We’re here.
Nikki, you recently said that stand-up is like sex.
GLASER When I’m onstage, I behave in ways and say things that I would never say offstage. Similar to sex, I feel unbridled. I feel like I can make different noises and faces and do things with my body that I would never do in front of my friends and family or the general public. Having to then hear feedback about anything I did onstage always feels to me like someone after sex being like, “Remember when you said that one thing?” No, no, no, no, no. I don’t want to hear what I said. There’s a detachment for me, and I’m kind of embarrassed by that person. So, I’m glad that everyone watches it, but I don’t want to watch it and I don’t want to hear what you think.
TORRES Are you editing it?
GLASER Yes. It’s the most painful thing I’ve ever done in my life.
SYKES I like it.
TORRES I like too.
Leanne, for years, you were told you weren’t “edgy” enough for places like Comedy Central. What was the feedback and what did you do about it?
LEANNE MORGAN Well, my darling, when I started doing this 27 years ago, I was in a kitten heel and a capri pant with a bird on it and talking about somebody doo-dooing on a T-ball field, which was a good bit. But Comedy Central was big then and they didn’t want me, none of the festivals [did either], but I’d get a development deal every once in a while for a sitcom and it was enough to keep me going.
What kind of feedback were the rest of you pushing back on as you were coming up?
MARON People have said I was too angry. At that time I was. Not anymore. Not angry at all. Sweet, humble, just wide open.
GLASER You have softened.
TORRES But they’re only ever comparing it to the most recent successful thing they saw. It’s like, “You’re too angry.” Based on what? This funny, sweet guy you just saw two minutes ago?
MARON Or based on the fact that you’re upsetting people.
TORRES OK, sure.
How about you, Wanda?
SYKES “You’re a funny female comic.” It’s so annoying. I can’t just be a funny comic? We’re always put into a category of female comics, like what we’re doing is not on the same level.
GLASER There’s a new level to it, too, where I feel like there’s a lot of manosphere guys who will like one female comic and that will be proof that they do like women. And I’ve been the one before and it feels nice even from people you don’t agree with — but it also doesn’t, because you know you’re going to be replaced by the next one.
MARON But you transcended it. Once you elevate to where you don’t need that approval, you’re bigger than them.
GLASER I don’t ever feel that way.
MARON Oh, you should.
GLASER But who wants to let that in and feel like, “I’ve made it”?
MARON Seems like there are some people that do enjoy that.
GLASER I don’t want to be one of those people. Not [so much] enjoy it, but think you’re cool.
MARON Nate Bargatze is opening a theme park.
GLASER I know.
TORRES Opening a theme park?! Where?
MORGAN Where I was raised, outside of Nashville.
GLASER I’m going to do a ski resort.
MARON There you go! I think that’s accepting success.
What would you hear, Julio?
TORRES One time a guy introduced me like, “And now this next guy is going to come out and he’s going to do his thing.”
SYKES Oh!
TORRES But I did. I think a lot of people want to define what comedy is, so if someone is too angry, that’s not comedy. If someone is playing with the form, that’s not comedy. One time, it was like, “Well, he’s sitting. It’s not stand-up comedy.”
GLASER Oh my God.
MARON Those people are the worst. The only requirement to stand-up is —
TORRES Time.
MARON And figuring out how to be funny.
GLASER That’s why you get into it, but once you get agents and people who are weighing in and want you to be marketable, I got a lot of, “Don’t be dirty.”
TORRES Don’t be dirty?!
GLASER And not only because you can’t be on network TV talking like that, but also that’s what all female comics do, and so you’re doing the easy thing. I go, “Well, is it easy for other women to talk about what their vaginas look like onstage?” It’s easy for me, but why wouldn’t you want me to do something that comes easy to me?
Who do you hear that from?
MARON Bookers, club owners, agents …
GLASER And TV. Early on, because of my stand-up, I wasn’t chosen to do a lot of things on network TV because they’re just worried that you might go off and talk about anal sex. You even go on radio and they’re like, “Now, this is a show where families are listening.” I’m like, “I know where I am.”
MORGAN I’d get reminded of that, and I’m a clean comic. People would say, “On the radio …” Or if I did a corporate gig, “You know you can’t do that.” I’m like, “I’m not an idiot.”
MARON Part of me is always a little dirty just to keep those people away. And by that, I mean success. But I’ve done clean sets, because we all had to do them. If you were doing Letterman, you had to be clean. I can do it. And I don’t talk about dirty stuff as much as I used to because I’m old. It doesn’t age well.
GLASER It doesn’t.
Nikki recently defined her aspirational self as follows: “I want to be someone who’s smart and fuckable and adorable and likable and seems nice, but is saying awful things.” First, did I miss anything?
GLASER Whew, I did not practice that before I said it.
TORRES But that is you.
GLASER I do want to be liked by everyone because it’s a sickness, but I also want to say things that make people feel less alone. I always felt like I was weird, and no one was really an example of that on TV — the people that were my role models. And yeah, I want to be fuckable because it makes people treat you better and give you more money for things. I don’t actually want to be fucked. I want to be clear about that. I don’t want to be penetrated. I just want the stuff that comes with people wanting to.
MARON Yeah.
GLASER It feels weird to say that, but who doesn’t want to be liked? I’ve read the room and when you look prettier, people are nicer to you.
TORRES I think you’re literally listing what 99.99 percent of the people working in the entertainment industry wish for, but you’re just saying it.
How do the rest of you want to be seen?
MARON Fuckable is good. I think I do want people to like me, but I seem to want them to work for it a bit. I’m also very clear that not everyone is going to. There’s a part of me that thinks, “I’m for everybody.” But I know that’s not true.
MORGAN And there are going to be people that are not for me.
SYKES Yeah, and I’m OK with it.
MORGAN It took me a long time to get to that place. But I’m not for everyone.
Who are you not for?
MORGAN I’d say 20-year-old boys are probably not into me.
TORRES Oh, I don’t know!
MORGAN I’m a mom and I talk about mom things.
TORRES But they have moms.
MORGAN They do have moms, you’re right. They’ve been in the back of a minivan.
SYKES It changes, too, because I’m experiencing this now where younger people are showing up at my shows, but they’re bringing their moms.
When talking about “your people,” how do you define that?
MARON It’s multigenerations of hand-wringers — sensitive, creative, angry people that feel like they don’t have a voice in the world. A lot of them are politically active or at least engaged and want to feel a little better.
SYKES It’s down that same line for me, but I get women and the LGBTQ audience, too. It’s why I wanted to do my special at my school, which is an HBCU, because I want my audience to see where I’m from. And also for my HBCU to see, “Oh, OK, you’re still down. You still with us.”
MORGAN I feel like my demographic is everybody in the middle of the U.S. that feels ignored by Hollywood. It’s women my age, but they also bring their grandmother and their daughter.
Who are “your people,” Julio?
TORRES If someone has fun hair, there’s a good chance. I can see them coming and I know. I also love crossing the street and seeing a shy girl with her tote bag just look at me and [smiles]. But you, [to Glaser] the way every gay man’s eyes widen when they hear your name —
GLASER I was just going to say, that’s my ideal!
TORRES Also, when I get asked if people can come in late to my show, I’m like, “Those are my people.” Forgot they bought tickets to this, are coming five minutes before it ends, had a long day. Those are absolutely my people.
With a show of hands, who here gives a lot of thought to what they wear for a special?
ALL (Raise hands.)
MARON I’ve made so many mistakes.
MORGAN Me too. Some doozies. My first Netflix special, I have on a dress that looks like the afghan on Roseanne’s couch.
MARON I once wore leather pants. Leather pants!
GLASER That’s great. It’s like a tattoo you regret.
What are you trying to telegraph with your outfits?
TORRES That I’m like a put-upon little creature that was working and now has to talk to the audience.
GLASER You get it right away!
SYKES For me, it’s not what I want to say with the clothes but it just matches the set. And I don’t know why I waited till I’m in my 60s to do more physical comedy — I’m not trying to break a fucking hip — but now I have to make sure I can move around in the clothes, too.
Nikki, you’ve said trying to be sexy and comedic at the same time doesn’t work. Why, and is that changing?
GLASER There was a moment when I got my first Comedy Central show where I was like, “I’m going to just wear flannel shirts and T-shirts, very minimal makeup, chop my hair off.” I’d gotten notes like, “Let’s make girls not threatened by you.” And it just wasn’t me.
TORRES Mm-hmm.
GLASER I’m on TV. I want to feel good. And I’ve always wanted to be a pop star, so if I want to dress like a pop star, I’m going to because it’s fun. Other than Halloween, when do I get to dress sexy? Now I have an excuse to. So, I wear what makes me feel like a star, because sometimes backstage I’m not feeling that way. Most of my life I’m not.
MORGAN Right.
GLASER During my special, I took off my blazer [at some point] because I was insecure about the audience getting bored. It’s like, here are some tits for a second, just something new to look at. But these places I’m playing, there are sometimes concerts going on with screens and dancers and outfit changes —
TORRES You should get backup dancers.
GLASER I’m going to on this next tour! I’m trying to write music for backup dancers to perform because I want more spectacle. Not because I’m insecure — I know I can do an hour of comedy and be entertaining — but these bigger venues, I want more. I want to use the screens. I want to do something bigger.
What does bombing look like at this stage of your careers?
SYKES I don’t bomb much, but whenever it’s a charity, it’s hard.
TORRES Someone just did a speech about cancer —
MORGAN Or hospice. I’ve done that. Let’s do a video on hospice, and then go, “Leanne Morgan!”
SYKES Or they know nothing about comedy and what we need in order to perform. A stage would help. How about putting a pause on the bar?
MORGAN It’s like dinner theater. They don’t stop.
GLASER The big reason why you bomb if you bomb at our level is the setup. The sound is bad. It’s daylight. The people that booked you have given different parameters of what’s OK to say.
MORGAN They play golf all day and they drink and they’re exhausted, and now you’re in a hotel ballroom 50 feet away from them. You can’t see them. You can’t connect with them. You’re like, “I wish somebody would shoot me while I’m up here.”
GLASER I bombed in front of so many thought leaders on a beach in Cabo. It’s was a summit for billionaires. Some group called, like, Figurative with no I’s or whatever.
TORRES That sounds horrible.
GLASER This was after the Tom Brady roast, too. I was doing well. I went out and it was all these people and they were in a circle and seeing each other, so no one was comfortable laughing. And I picked the wrong material. Then I had to walk off the stage in heels and it was instantly sand and they didn’t even applaud long enough for me to get off the stage, so you’re just walking in silence.
TORRES Sandy silence.
What’s the most combative or hilarious post-joke encounter you’ve had?
TORRES I get defenders of colors. “Well, people look good in navy blue. It’s good for everyone’s skin tone.” I’m like, “Sorry.”
MORGAN During COVID, I did say I don’t like sugar in my corn bread and that caused a riff among some women.
TORRES Wait, sugar in my corn bread, that’s not an expression?
MORGAN No. And I like corn bread without sugar in it, I was just saying it. I was bored, it was COVID. People fought!
MARON I get cat stuff. People have a lot of advice or they’re mad about how I’m doing things. And the parasocial reality of what we live in is annoying. Some of them are very smart people, but they believe that they have a relationship with you and it’s a little nerve-wracking, especially if you don’t have great personal boundaries and then all of a sudden you’re spending your day going, like, “What did that woman named Estelle mean? What did she know about how I treat my cats?”
Where won’t your audiences go with you?
MARON I push it lately because I get labeled as this progressive. I am a progressive person, but also I’m an old, dirty man. I mean, I’ve been in this business a long time, and half of it I was drunk. There’s a part of me, now that I have this following of sensitive, socially concerned people, that wants to be like, “Yeah, but I’m kind of dirty. You still like me now?”
MORGAN I don’t think I’m qualified to weigh in on politics. Nobody wants to know what I think, and I don’t know half the time. I’m just sitting here thinking about how to get through menopause.
Wanda, you wade into politics. Is there anyone in your life who’d prefer that you dial it back?
SYKES My mom. She’s like, “Wanda, I’m just concerned with people out here so mean and hurtful.” And I’m like, “Mom, it’s good.” And then when that awful kidnapping happened — or we don’t know what happened — to Savannah Guthrie’s mom, my mom was like, “Hey, look, you out here saying stuff. …” I’m like, “Mom, no one is going to take you. You’re fine.”
MARON That’s funny. My dad’s weird with this stuff, too. My dad, for a long time, was like, “Man, maybe don’t tell them you’re Jewish.” I’m like, “I think that cat’s out of the bag.”
TORRES At what point in your career was this?
MARON Couple weeks ago.
SYKES My audience, they just want to make sure it’s funny. I can’t go out there and just be preachy and ranting without it being funny.
Chris Rock recently said: “The thing I love about Nikki Glaser is she has the decency to be scared.” What scares all of you?
TORRES Saying it, I’m being like, “Ooh, am I too scared to say it?” But the fact that it’s looking like, at one point very soon, only three people will own all of media. How is it going to diminish what we are able to say, if only a couple of people are owning not only what’s on TV, but what’s on our phone screens, the news that people watch, the algorithm that the children and the other people that are watching the news are scrolling through? I think it’s naive to think, like, “Oh, well, there’s always been people that own media.” Right, there’s been several people that own media, not just a couple. I don’t know if it’s scary yet, but it’s definitely something that I worry about.
SYKES For me, it’s complacency and more on the part of the audience. Sometimes I’m going in on something, maybe a social issue or a political issue, and you can feel the audience being like, “OK, come on, I want to laugh about something silly now. Talk about sex or something.” And you’re like, “You guys are giving up already?”
MARON Sometimes I’ll just tell them, “This is just the first 10 minutes. It’s not going to be the whole show.”
SYKES I’ve had people walk out, and I always say, “Look, if you can’t wait it out for five more minutes, you’re going to miss some sweet dick jokes.”
TORRES “Fine, we’ll come back.”
Julio, you’ve attempted to make sense of the world using color as a tool. Before we wrap, I’d like to do a little exercise: What color is, say, Leanne?
TORRES There’s something very lavender, right?
MORGAN I think I’m very pretty in lavender.
TORRES It has the spice of purple, but it’s sweeter and more accessible.
MORGAN Oh, you angel from heaven.
TORRES There you go. She’s pleased.
GLASER Will you do me?
TORRES Head-to-toe gold.
GLASER Really? I’ve been dying to ask you all day.
TORRES Sparkly, sparkly gold.
GLASER Oh, that’s so nice.
MORGAN You need a deal with Party City for your own Halloween costume.
TORRES Or a bachelorette party line with Party City.
GLASER Like, penis straws and stuff?
MARON Penis hats.
TORRES All of it. What happens at a bachelorette? It’s trips?
MARON Some of them go to a comedy club.
MORGAN Yeah, I’ve been in comedy clubs where they’ve whipped each other with big penis balloons.
TORRES During your act?
MORGAN Yeah.
GLASER Oh God.
TORRES Did you say, “Guys, cut it out with those penis balloons”?
MORGAN It was girls, and I go, “You’re going to love that now, but one day that’s not going to mean a thing to you. Just whip each other with it now.”
TORRES Have your laugh now.
MORGAN That’s not going to be your thing later. But y’all enjoy!
This story first appeared in a June stand-alone issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. To receive the magazine, click here to subscribe.
Original Article on Hollywood Reporter