[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from the Tell Me Lies season three and series finale, “Are You Happy Now, That I’m on My Knees?”]
The Tell Me Lies writers talked about how they could keep the show going after season three. But then they realized they ended it too perfectly.
“I just kept coming back to, ‘I don’t think we’re going to beat this ending. I don’t think we’re going to beat this season.’ Anything that happens beyond this will feel like a different show. It will feel repetitive,” creator Meagan Oppenheimer recently told The Hollywood Reporter in a deep dive chat about bringing the buzzy Hulu series to a conclusion with that mic-drop of a season three finale.
Her stars who play the toxic couple at its center, Lucy and Stephen, agree. “I love the ending so much. It’s an amazing ending,” says Grace Van Patten, who plays Lucy. Her co-star boyfriend Jackson White, who plays Stephen, agrees. “Meaghan smoked that ending,” he says.
Oppenheimer always knew she wanted to merge the show’s two timelines, and have the downfall of the college era play out in the show’s present-day timeline at Bree (Cat Missal) and Evan’s (Brendan Cook) wedding, which reunited the group of toxic friends. Stephen exposes everyone’s secrets during an impromptu wedding reception speech — first that he and ex-girlfriend Lucy slept together that morning, next that Bree and Evan’s best friend Wrigley (Spencer House) have been having an affair and finally, the biggest blow of all that Bree was the one who released the video in college of Lucy admitting she lied about being raped, which got her expelled.
After blowing up the friend group, Stephen tells Lucy to leave with him and, certainly not to the surprise of Van Patten or White, Lucy does. But it’s Stephen who plays the final hand when he abandons her at a gas station in the middle of nowhere. Lucy laughs and registers that she was just played, again, and Van Patten believes this is the moment that Lucy can finally be free of Stephen.
“I really believe this could be the end of Stephen for her,” she tells THR in the edited conversation below, where she was joined by White (and which took place before Oppenheimer confirmed Tell Me Lies was ending). “She’s aware of the predictability once he leaves her again, like it’s almost the final confirmation she needed to be free of him. There’s relief in that final moment. It is funny to her at that point. Like, ‘Oh, my God, I fell for that again. I had to see just one more time.’ I think there’s a lot of hope that she’s free from that.”
Below, Van Patten and White break down that ending, why they think it’s perfect and why it makes sense that Tell Me Lies ends on this note. “This show has been so amazing for us, not just friendship-wise and getting so close to each other, but also being a part of something that people love. We’re all so thankful for it,” says Van Patten.
***
Grace, you have said you’re obsessed with this ending. What were you most obsessed about when you read it? Did you have any hints that it would go this way?
GRACE VAN PATTEN No, I don’t think I had any hints. When I read it, I was like, “This is the perfect ending.” It’s perfect. It sums everything up in the right way. Not the whole story, but the whole Stephen and Lucy journey and how predictable it’s been for however many years, and the release of knowing how predictable it is. Maybe that’s the freedom of Lucy. Maybe that’s now the release of knowing that she can finally move on.
How shocked were you to find out that it was Bree who released the tape of Lucy in college? Did you see that coming?
VAN PATTEN No. No, I didn’t. I didn’t at all. And we don’t really get to see that play out at the wedding. We see that small interaction of Lucy being stunned and Bree panicking. But it shows Lucy’s priorities, once again, that it’s Stephen. It’s another excuse to go back to Stephen.
Jackson, when you read that Lucy shows up to his car after the wedding fiasco, did that surprise you?
JACKSON WHITE No! Of course she would show up. Of course. That’s these two, right? Of course she would. I love the ending. I thought it was a great ending.
What does it mean that he drives away? Do you take that as a real drive away or just another part of the game?
WHITE I think it’s hilarious. Just another part of the game. Who knows?
VAN PATTEN That why it’s so fun. I can’t wait to hear what what people think. Did he run off and that’s the last time they ever speak? Or does he pull back around and, say, “Haha. Get in.”
WHITE Meaghan [Oppenheimer] smoked that ending.
Lucy utters a laugh, but there are a lot of emotions written on her face as she registers what he’s done and how she feels about it. Can you take us inside her inner monologue in the final scene?
VAN PATTEN It just felt right to laugh. It felt right to be shocked, which is what Lucy’s reaction would be. Any time before that moment, she is so shocked by these things Stephen does, even though he does it constantly. This was about having that shock turn into her saying, “Of course (laughs), like, obviously,” and having there be a light in that. Having it be a positive thing and a sign. And not this awful thing that happens again. I think it’s weirdly positive for Lucy.
Do you ever feel the need to defend Lucy, or is it easy for you to separate yourself from her? Are you bracing to have to defend her after this finale?
VAN PATTEN I don’t feel like I need to defend her — talk about predictable. I think we all know she’s going to make some bad decisions, but I love this ending so much. I’m really curious to hear whether people think there’s some hope in the ending, because I do. I really believe this could be the end of Stephen for her.
Could they have gotten to a place where it could ever be lighter with them, if he turned around?
VAN PATTEN I mean, they did just lose everyone in their lives completely. That can do things to people. Hopefully, they both learned after that.
WHITE Maybe they won’t. Maybe they’ll just keep going at it. That’d be fun.
VAN PATTEN And how do they use that? How do they use their negative things together as opposed to at each other?
WHITE Like a supervillain couple.
VAN PATTEN I don’t know what Stephen is thinking. I don’t know if it was just another gotcha moment for him, because he just blows up his life and then blows it up with Lucy. I don’t know what his plan is.
Do you think she would have the strength to push him away, if he were to come back?
VAN PATTEN I’d like to think, yes, especially because the whole friend group is completely scattered now. Stephen dropped many bombs in that speech. I don’t think there’s going to be any communication with them. I think it’ll force Lucy to go home and completely reevaluate herself, and start fresh. That can be a healthy thing sometimes. That group of friends is just breeding toxicity with each other. Without that, they could all have the potential to grow.
How chaotic was it filming the wedding ending (which was set to Britney Spears’ “Toxic”)?
VAN PATTEN I just got to sit and watch. It was like watching it play. It was so much fun. The cake and the speech and the running around. I loved how it translated exactly the same in the episode, which is always is a relief when something feels so good. When you’re on set, you never know if it’s going to translate. So that was amazing to see.
Is there one timeline you would be interested in exploring further, any unseen years you are still curious about?
WHITE The inbetween. What does that seven years [between college and the wedding] look like?
VAN PATTEN I am curious about that. They haven’t seen each other. Lucy lives in L.A. now, and Stephen is in New York.
WHITE Yeah. Or maybe they have. Oooh!
VAN PATTEN And they’ve been lying! I would be curious what that looks like, and what the lead up to the wedding looks and the anticipation. And where they all were individually before they came together again.
What about Lucy and Bree’s future. After you first read in the script that Bree has known about Lucy sleeping with Evan since college, did you explain to yourself why this secret wouldn’t come out between these best friends for six years?
VAN PATTEN I remember being totally shocked that Bree had known the whole time — and being extra shocked she released the tape. But what justified it for me is that I think before Bree released the tape, and kind of ruined Lucy’s life by getting her expelled, she had been totally planning on confronting her and hashing it out, and probably ending their friendship. You do see Bree feel really bad for Lucy and feel guilty for releasing it, even though she knows about Evan. So I feel like Bree just saw it as, okay, we’re even now. And it never came up again. Which makes sense for them, because that whole group of friends just does not communicate. So the fact that a secret stays a secret tracks to me.
But I would hope that Lucy would still mend things with Bree. I think they could work it out and still be in each other’s lives, is my [lingering] hope.
Do you think Bree and Wrigley will go on and live happily ever? [Oppenheimer says yes.]
VAN PATTEN I wonder because Wrigley is a total mess in the present day. I would be interested in seeing how that plays out because they have such a beautiful, beautiful thing going on in college. Are they acting on it because of what they had, and that’s gone now? Or was that chemistry maintained throughout however many years? I am curious if they’re happily ever after, or if they just feel like this was fun when we were younger.
We see by the end of the season how much damage Stephen has done to Lucy in the college era. Grace, how did you navigate Lucy’s gradual breakdown this season?
VAN PATTEN The denial made it more of a gradual downfall. Lucy doesn’t acknowledge that her life is completely spinning out of control until a few episodes after [filming] the tape. It’s a slow burn — the growing panic that Stephen could hold this over her forever, or not knowing when he’s going to expose it. That created panic and numbness and her not knowing how to interact with people contributed to her feeling like she may deserve it. It’s really complicated, and it all blows up at the end.
Did you have more help from an intimacy coordinator this season?
VAN PATTEN Not any more than past seasons. We’ve always had an intimacy coordinator who is there to help choreograph these very technical scenes. The most important part is making sure the emotion is there.
Jackson, you mentioned [in our earlier chat] that some scenes caused you to walk off set. Which Stephen scenes were hardest for you to get through?
JACKSON WHITE Probably one of the scenes where Stephen does horrible things to women.
VAN PATTEN The tape, you felt really icky about that.
WHITE Yeah, it sucks. It sucks. It’s super hard.
VAN PATTEN That’s tough to enter that space and have to justify it, because you have to.
WHITE Right. We leave work. You don’t take anything [with you]. I will never ever leave work — and I know you [Grace] won’t either — feeling like, “Oh, fuck, I’m still in it and do I feel those things or does he feel those things?” Never in my life. But when you’re in it and you’re experiencing that, it sucks. It hurts. It can hurt. But that’s part of it. That’s why we do it, though. You need to leave and hopefully you feel like you touched something and then you can relax.
VAN PATTEN Jackson has it hard. He has to be so terrible to me. He has to say such horrible things. But it’s also why he’s so good. He’s in it, and he’s convincing. It also makes him upset, which I think is why, every so often, you do see some vulnerability from Stephen that confuses you. I think that’s a testament to how much Jackson’s thinking about it and how much he puts himself into it, which makes people have such a visceral reaction to him.
To bring it back to Lucy and Stephen, I’ve seen you talk about them saying no one will accept them and, in the end, they accept who they each are. I think that also applies to Lucy, finally, accepting herself. Is that how you view this ending for Lucy and Stephen?
VAN PATTEN Yes. I think the reason they are so caught in this vicious cycle for three seasons is because they might accept each other too much. They accept these very negative parts of each other. They’re able to be their worst selves with each other and not be reprimanded for it. They wouldn’t be able to get away with any of the things they do to each other with anyone else. That’s what brings them so close. It’s why they keep going back to each other — no one else will put up with them. I do think the ending is complete acceptance. For Lucy, I think it was the best thing that could have happened. I really do.
Stephen was clearly still on her mind. Sometimes you have to go there to get that final confirmation. Because if she didn’t leave with him, she’d probably just be thinking about leaving with him until she sees him the next time and then goes with him the next time. Sometimes it’s just all about timing. She saw an opening to try it again, and the same thing happened, and it was like, “All right, that is what I needed.”
***
Tell Me Lies is now streaming all seasons on Hulu.
Original Article on Hollywood Reporter